Having visited Bungie’s Washington studio recently to play the new Destiny expansion “The Taken King” for the better part of two days, I believe that this is the best Destiny has ever been.
I mean, I already liked Destiny. But with the crazy amount of changes and improvements “The Taken King” brings to the table, it’s easier than ever to recommend the game.
That said—because this is still Destiny we’re talking about—I have a few major gripes going into the game’s second year. Luckily Bungie made “Take Taken King”’s executive producer, Mark Noseworthy, available for a chat, and I took full advantage.
The conversation spanned everything from the game’s new focus on actual storytelling to the minutiae of which old guns are still going to be viable, and which are just plain useless now. And because I know the most dedicated Destiny players will want to read every word of this, I transcribed the whole thing and pasted it below.
If you want the short version, read my general piece about “The Taken King.” Otherwise, keep scrolling down for my full interview with “The Taken King” Executive Producer Mark Noseworthy.
Playboy: Destiny feels totally different with “The Taken King,” even with small things like how you get quests. How much were you determined to alter the everyday fabric of the game?
Mark Noseworthy: I wouldn’t say it was a goal to make it feel different; it was a goal to make it better. If the structure for how you get activities and the context you get for the missions and the things that you’re doing—really that’s the quest system and how those are threaded together—makes the game feel different but better, then yeah, we’re really happy about that. The inspiration for really explicitly putting quests into the game were the exotic bounties we shipped with Destiny 1. There was just a handful of them and they came on pretty late and we were like, ‘Hey well, what if instead of having one bounty, what if you have like a bunch of bounties and at the end, you got some really sweet reward?’ The one that was really inspirational was the Thorn bounty; not because it was like, super well done, but because the last step of Thorn, when you went to the Summoning Pits, like, Xyor, this character who doesn’t appear anywhere else in the game, appears—while you’re fighting a fucking boss—and you have to defeat Xyor and that was really hard to do. And the people who did got Thorn, and it’s like, oh, that guy’s a badass (or he’s got some really good friends or whatever). The story they can tell about that was really cool, like “Have you been to Summoning Pits when Xyor’s there?”
So that was a really cool narrative, and the story that people told about Thorn was more interesting than the story they’d tell about the Black Garden or whatever. We were like, well, we want the whole game to feel like that. So we started experimenting with that with “The Dark Below;” there were some quests, and Eris as a quest vendor appeared, and we leaned into that a little bit more with “House of Wolves.” But with “The Taken King,” it was soon after the launch of Destiny, we realized we want this to be pervasive. We want this to be everywhere, so you can understand, “Why am I doing the things that I’m doing? What am I going to get when I get there?” And having some sense of what the reward would be. That was important to us, so in that sense the meta structure for the game is different than it was before.
I know you shy away from words like “MMO,” but it does feel more like an RPG now.
Yeah, I think that’s true. You know, first and foremost, Destiny is—our number one goal is to be a best-in-class action game. It needs to be fun to shoot monsters with my friends.
Well it’s always been that.
It’s always been that, and now it’s the other things that are coming up. We’ve nailed that—I hope, I think we’ve nailed it, I like playing the game a lot—and I think we’re continuing to do that really well. But it’s like, now let’s start nailing the other things and start really letting the RPG part of Destiny really sing. Let’s get the linear story part of Destiny to be really strong, like there’s a beginning, middle, end, and I know what I’m doing and why and there’s a story to tell my friends and it’s something I’m going to remember a couple of years later when they make the television movie of Destiny, or whatever, right—that’s not confirmed, that was total bullshit [laughing].
And so, yeah, certainly in “The Taken King” we’re looking at everything that Destiny can be and in what ways can it be better. Because in many ways Destiny is an amalgamation of a bunch of different genres, you know? And we want to do them all really well.
The writing has improved a lot as well. Now the character feel like characters, where before it was like—
“This is the inventory screen for this thing—” and now they’re real characters.
Yeah. Where was all that a year ago?
You know, I can only speak to what we were trying to do with “The Taken King,” and when we were thinking about what should the story be, who do we want to be prominently featured, it’s like, should it be this person or that person? The people that the players have the closest relationship with are the people that are giving them things, you know? The Cryptarch, although he can be super irritating at times, he was in a way a more interesting character than a bunch of people in the story for Destiny 1, because he was a guy who you went to a lot and sometimes he made you really happy, you know? And he said these kinds of funny things. And like, Cayde was this character who was voice acted by Nathan Fillion, but a lot of people didn’t realize that Nathan Fillion was in the game because they didn’t have to go see him that often or whatever, they just didn’t hear his voice. But if you stood next to him in the Tower he would whisper, like, “Take me with you.” And you’re like, oh man, there’s a deeper story here.
That’s just a tiny seed of a character though.
And now we said, like, let’s take that seed, and then take this piece from Zavala and this piece from Ikora and these other characters, and grow them into like, real characters that matter to you, that you care about, that you’re thinking about, you know? And add some levity to it, you know? Cayde, Nathan Fillion, is a great comedic actor, and so how can we get him and play him off against Eris who’s this kind of creepy, old, like smelly lady, and have them play off against each other throughout the story. That was something that we thought could be an interesting background to this larger narrative of “bad guy comes to town, find his evil fortress and stop him.” Like, that’s the story.
That’s a really clichéd story that’s been done a thousand times. If I didn’t know anything about it before playing “The Taken King” and suddenly I saw these cutscenes that are like, “You killed Crota, and now his dad is super pissed! Go kill him!” We’d be like, what? Crota has a dad? Who’s his mom? Was he like, born like a normal person? He’s this huge monster—it doesn’t make any sense. Destiny has all this great lore behind it, with the Traveler and the Last City and so on, and this has nothing to do with that. But the writing is good and funny and the characters feel more like real people so it doesn’t really matter what the story is actually about.
Yeah. We’re trying to tell, maybe, a smaller story, right? You know, something that people can sink their teeth into and there’s really interesting fiction there and there’s deeper lore, and of course we have more Grimoire cards, and there’s things you can scan in the world now with the Ghost now that you couldn’t before. Just in the first mission of the campaign there are six monitors in that Cabal base that you can go up to and scan them optionally and they tell you about what the fuck the Cabal are doing there. And there’s a narrative, there’s a story you can start to piece together about who the Skyburners are and what’s happening and why, across the campaign. So people can get that lore if they want it, but we wanted to tell a simpler story that wasn’t trying to touch every aspect of the universe, but some core part of it. The Taken, the Hive, are a core part of the Destiny fiction and universe.
Moving forward are we going to focus on more smaller stories or will we get back to the bigger picture eventually?
I don’t want to speak for anything that we might do in the future. I can say that I don’t think this is the last you will ever hear of the characters and the story elements of “The Taken King,” right? In the same way that we’re touching back on some things that happened in “The Dark Below,” and “House of Wolves,” I think in the future things will touch back on what’s happened in Destiny 1 and in “The Taken King.”
You did a ton of small updates between major expansions in year 1. During year 2, in between “The Taken King” and Destiny 2, will there be more big expansions or more, like, smaller content updates during that year?
We’re only talking about “The Taken King” now, but I can say that we’re committed to continuing to update the game. I think we updated it like 40 times in the first year, which is pretty unprecedented for a console game, certainly an action game. I don’t see us updating the game less than that next year. You know, we have an entire team, the live team, that’s devoted to making sure that the game is running well and that the game is still interesting, right? We certainly don’t want to get to a point where there’s nothing new for players to do and nothing for players to chase or nothing novel, so yeah. There will be stuff in the future.
Are we going to have more frequent weapon balance updates?
There are always hot fixes we can do for like, “OK, this thing’s just fucking broken. Just fix this one thing.” We’re not super excited about like, just nerfing one gun, because all that does is upset people who use that gun and so we try to do—we try to collect things together, where it’s like this thing should be improved, this thing should be brought down, and do them together. We have talked a bit about how we want balance changes to be more frequent than we did in the first year. We probably—I think we had two big updates, one in December and then one at some point—
Being hesitant to take down one gun is one thing, but there were very clear problems, like Thorn, that went unaddressed for months and months.
The situation with Thorn and some of the weapons this summer were just that we were like, heads down on “Taken King,” and we were like, do we want to divert resources away from “Taken King” to fix, you know, these sets of weapons, or can it wait two more months? And so that was like, you know, we can debate whether that was the right choice or not, but in that case we were like “let’s wait.” I think that was around the time we decided, like, we need to make this more of a common thing, where we just, we’re planning, in the schedule, update the balance for the live game and that’s going to take a bunch of time from these people. Just expect it. We’re going to do it, and we’re going to do it on a more regular cadence than we did in year 1. So that’s something we’re committed to.
When players first load up “The Taken King,” everything is new, but they’re going to keep using their old favorite weapons. Then that stuff is outclassed after the first few story missions—
They can actually use them much longer than that. Like, there are new drops that have higher attack, but you can use your year 1 gear to get through Oryx [in the final story mission]. Even into the early endgame, you can still continue to use it. It was something that was important to us—that, you know, that that transition not feel like a cliff, but like something that could happen gradually. So it’s not immediate. But part of the—not part of, I think the core fantasy of being a Guardian in Destiny is going out into the world and discovering new places, fighting new monsters, and becoming more powerful by finding new things. And yeah, we really felt like the start of year 2 was the time to really make that gear step.
It was in the new strike playlist that I really started to feel like my old gear was worthless. Hard Light is really fun to use now, but after the story stuff is over and you move on to higher stuff it’s just useless. I felt like I hit a wall. Part of the thing that’s been frustrating me over the past couple of days while playing through all this stuff is that all the new weapons I’ve found are technically better because they have a higher attack number attached to them—so mathematically, they do more damage—but their stats and perks are terrible and they’re not fun to use.
I think that’s probably because you’re comparing however many—I assume you’ve played a lot of Destiny 1—however many hundreds of hours and the sets of legendaries and exotics that you have there with the 15 hours of “The Taken King” that you’ve played here.
Right. So I guess my question is, how long is it going to take before the day one player who’s like me, who has all these amazing weapons right now, is going to start feeling like they’re getting good guns again? To jump in and very quickly go from having dozens of good, viable weapons to one or two or a handful—how long will it be before I start feeling like I have options again?
I hope it’s that first weekend. You know, I hope it’s that first week, really, because the game doesn’t come out on Friday, it comes out on a Tuesday. So I hope by the end of that first week you have stuff where you’re like, “I really like this new legendary gun. I love this Omolon, you know, rifle,” or maybe you’re got your first exotic drop and you’re like, “This thing is so cool,” right? But yeah, it’s going to take some time to make you fall in love with all the new weapons. I think there are some blues and greens that are just interesting and fun to use, even if they’re not, you know, they don’t have the most amazing set of talents on them, right? Because I think the early blues and greens don’t have the deepest trees.
I’m so conditioned to just dismantle greens and blues as soon as I pick them up, but people should be taking a closer look at those, right?
You can. You don’t need to, like I said, you don’t need to switch to the new greens and blues right away. But there will come a point, probably around when you’re going into the strikes, where you’re like, hey, I really need to start considering some of the new, higher attack weapons. Another way of getting an experience with a wide variety of weapons is the field test weapons on the gunsmith. I don’t know if you got a chance to check any of those out.
I did, and they’re not terrible, even though they’re white, low-rarity weapons.
Yeah, early endgame, they’re pretty good. Late endgame, they’re terrible. But they’re a perfect thing to try once you can get in there, because you get to use the Suros weapons, and Omolon, and Hakke, for free, to try these things out and get a sense of like, “You know what? I think I really like Hakke shotguns.” And then when Armsday comes up, which is the new weekly vendor event on the Gunsmith on Wednesdays, once you have enough reputation with him—which you get by using his field test weapons—you can say hey man, I’m going to give you some materials and cash here, and then I’ll come back next week and see what you have.
Do you get to tell him what kinds of weapons you want?
Yeah, you get to choose the brand and the archetype, and then you’ll come back the next week, and he’s like OK, here are three Suros for you, or here are your options. And they’re legendary, so it’s a really good weapon, and it’s a deterministic path to get something in the game. And that’s something you could infuse, if you’re like “Oh my god, I can’t believe the talents this thing rolled on. You know, I love firefly on this gun, this is awesome, I’m going to carry this thing until I find something better.” Or, “This doesn’t have the perfect stats for me, maybe I’ll use this for a while, and then I’m going to mail away again next week and maybe this one’s going to come back with slightly different stats on it or different perks.”
One of the other things that really stings for me now is the nerf to the field scout perk, which used to increase how many bullets were in a gun’s clip, but now only affects how much reserve ammo you can carry. It’s a perk that only appears on year 1 weapons, which are already being left behind in terms of the attack numbers and the damage they can do. I thought, at least I’ll still be able to use Praedyth’s Revenge and Corrective Measure and other guns with field scout in Crucible, where the attack number doesn’t matter as much, but now those guns are nerfed past even the point of the light numbers.
Well, the math thing is more about the PvE side of things, and so like if something was 365 attack before, it’s now 170, but whatever you could kill in four shots before you can still kill in four shots on 9/8 when the 2.0 patch goes out. That’s when all the balance changes go live. So that hasn’t changed, but certainly there have been some global changes we’ve made, we think, we hope for the health of the game and to ultimately make things better.
One of the guiding principles that we have when we’re balancing the game is we want there to not be only one right choice. We want players to have lots of choice about what is viable, and you know, when you look at something like—and I know you’re not talking about this right now—but something like Gjallarhorn, it became like, “well, this is the requirement to play these sets of activities, or you can’t play with me.” And that’s just really unsatisfying for people, to feel like I have to use this, or this is the only way to play. So when we’re trying to do meta-level balance on the game, whether that’s with subclasses or with weapons or with gear or talents, we say, “Let’s make as many things viable, let’s have lots of viable avenues for people to express themselves and to play differently.” And that’s definitely what’s driving those changes.
I mean, I don’t care about Gjallarhorn or Ice Breaker or Black Hammer or the other guns that got really specific nerfs. That stuff was overpowered. It’s like, weapons that are obsolete anyway—like, there aren’t any new guns with field scout. That perk doesn’t appear anymore. So what’s the point of nerfing a perk that only appears on old—mathematically obsolete—guns anyway?
I don’t know.
Destiny PR: Some of it would be PvP, since they’re still viable in the Crucible, since power levels are fixed—so I mean, unfair advantages—a lot of that stuff has gone through patches just like, I mean, if you look at Trials [of Osiris], right, you had the one sniper rifle that had the “final round” perk, so you’d shoot somebody in the toe and it would kill them—
I exploited that too, and it was overpowered.
PR: And some of that stuff is like, stuff with Tyson [Green], with the investment lead, and balancing stuff that’s probably a little bit—
Well there’s also the fact that the Vault of Glass weapons have always felt too powerful compared to every other weapon.
Which Luke [Smith, creative director on “The Taken King”] has openly admitted. We wanted the Vault of Glass to be awesome, and we wanted the rewards to be awesome, so they were, and they were just like, “Oh, these are too awesome.” Right? They became the answer to every problem.
So now is the time, a year in, when we have all these improvements, to sneak in and make those a little bit worse in the process.
Well, I don’t think we’re sneaking those in, because we’ve been upfront about making the changes.
You guys have confirmed that other exotic weapons and armors that aren’t getting year 2 versions right away are on the table to be upgraded and added later?
Yeah. There was a bunch at launch that people are trying to figure out what they are on screens that have been released, and whatever, I’m sure that people will have figured it out by the time—I think they already have it figured out. So there’s going to be some right at launch, and then as the year goes on we’re going to find points and places where it looks interesting to bring something back. Right? Like, hey, this part of the game is sort of missing—let’s bring this kind of HMG back.
Double shotguns! I need my Universal Remote.
Yeah, you know, stuff like that. There’s some point where things may come back, and that’s one of the things that’s great about the exotic blueprint, which is if you have this thing—and now the vault’s doubled, so you can probably just keep all this stuff anyway, but if you don’t want to hold onto it, when the level 40 version comes out, you’re going to get early access on it. You’re not going to have to RNG find it again, you’re not going to have to Xur it again. It’s right there. You just have to pony up some marks for it, and you’re good to go. And the year 2 version’s going to come with its inherent perk built in. So right out of the gate, this thing’s useful, and then with some new stuff sometimes, and like, with black Suros, you know, it’s slick.
So that’s going to be great for collectors, and it means that any time we roll out one of those updates, people are going to be really excited, you know, “I want to come back and get my level 40 version of that thing, and try the gun that I haven’t used in a while—in Trials, right? Or in high end PvE content. I’m going to see how that gun compares to the exotics I’ve been using these last three months, these new exotics or these new legendaries. And you actually get to compare them side by side, like "oh, you know, I used to think this thing was the bee’s knees and nothing could compete with this, but I think I had a bit of nostalgia there. It’s not quite what I thought.” Or “Oh, no, this thing is the king, and the king’s back. It’s good to be the king.” I think that’s going to be a cool way for players to come back.
Is there room in the metagame for year 2 versions of legendaries, like the raid guns?
People have definitely talked about it, you know, because certainly with the raid items, that’s something that people—you could never Xur those, right?
Right, and there’s basically no reason to play Vault of Glass or Crota’s End right now at all.
Yeah, which is actually by design in many ways. The Vault of Glass is super fun, we think it’s, you know—we’re really proud of the achievement in game design there. But part of what was important to us with Destiny was to design a game that was compatible with real life, where somebody could play a couple of hours a week and still make progress and have a good time, and someone else could play a ton—a ton more than that—and that person could have, like—I’ll give you an example, of me and my brother.
I have maybe 150 hours in the live game, which isn’t chump change, for a video game. But it’s nothing compared to others who have over 1,000, right? He’s only a couple of levels ahead of me, but he has a way broader arsenal. He’s got fucking everything, and he’s so much better at the game than me. You know, he goes to Mercury every weekend, and you know, whenever Trials is up, and he’s a really good player. But we can still play the nightfall together, right? He’s not so far ahead of me that I’m useless to him. And of course, I’m never going to be on his Trials team, and I’m not going to do a level 35 Prison of Elders with him, and whatever. But we’re still in the same universe. And that’s pretty uncommon for a lot of ongoing games where you can put a lot of time into it. And that’s one of the ways in which we’re compatible with real life.
But the other is the ritual of logging in every week. If we updated all the rewards in the Vault of Glass, if we updated, you know, “We’ve changed the way Prison of Elders played!” If we changed Crota, did all these things, the weekly ritual would become this incredible burden. “Beat nightfall, do the daily, bang out your three weekly strikes, play King’s Fall, play Crota, it would just—it would suddenly become a game that almost no one could keep up with, and the difference between the players who can do that and those who couldn’t would become enormous, and then suddenly the community would start fracturing in all sorts of ways, and that’s just not good for the kind of experience that I think people really like to have in Destiny.
So there’s the version of that endgame player who feels the need to do everything every week, but the other version of that is bringing all the raids and Prison of Elders and whatever up to the current level, and updating the guns and rewards from those activities, and just having four times the options. If all those things were at the top level, I think most players would just do the things they wanted to do and have more options rather than feeling like they need to do every single thing every week.
I think that would happen to some players. And that would be fun. I think some other players would feel the burden, you know? There are periods where I played more than a couple of hours a week, and I know a lot of people here felt the same way. You’d be coming home at night, and putting the key in the door, and you’re opening the door and you’re like, "OK, here’s the list of stuff I have to do before I can relax: I have to do the daily, I have to do this thing—” And it was just like, oh my god.
And we’re coming to work and talking about this the next day, and we’re like, we really like playing the game, but when it starts feeling like work or like a chore, like a burden, that’s going too far. And some people were cool with it—some people are running fucking three characters. Some people create a new character every week and like, that’s awesome. That’s awesome for that guy who has that time and loves doing that. But we don’t want that to be the way that’s the only right way to play Destiny, to do all these things. That’s been driving some of that thinking.
What about stuff like Trials of Osiris or Iron Banner? Is Iron Banner going to be Rift now, for example? Will Trials have new rewards from the Lighthouse chest, or will that even keep going?
Events like that kind of cyclical programming stuff, we’re not making any announcements about Trials yet, but like, I will say Trials is super popular and people love it, and we’re not making an announcement on when that’s going to come back, or what that looks like, but I’m just saying we have not forgot about Trials. Iron Banner, we haven’t announced anything. I will say that it’s not that first weekend. We really want people to play the PvE content for a while, and the new PvP maps. But there are new rewards for Iron Banner. That I can say. And sweet new gear for all three classes, and people are going to love chasing that. And I think you can expect to see an Iron Banner before you see Trials.
So Trials won’t be every weekend anymore? It’s postponed for now?
I do not know what the programming schedule looks like, I just know that for the first couple of weeks we’re really focused on like, the launch of the game. I wouldn’t say Trials is postponed; it’s just that there is a calendar of programming, whether it’s like this weekend it’s going to be mayhem clash, and then the next weekend it’s going to be this thing, it’s going to be that thing, and all these things have to work together along with the power levels and the power over time—sorry, I say “power” and I mean “light.” Light over time—like, where do we think people will be with the endgame by week 4 as it relates to the raid, and what does that mean for these PvP cyclical activities, and where would we want those to fit in, and you know, there’s all that kind of planning going on right now. We haven’t solidified that yet.
I come at this stuff as someone who—I get an itch in the back of my head. Like, I do a lot of dragon strikes trying to get Hopscotch Pilgrim. I go to the Lighthouse three times every weekend, and I still do not have a Messenger with Void damage, and that drives me crazy. And I see that as a line that the game is going to cross, where those prizes we’re chasing just won’t be available anymore and I’ll have failed.
It is true that some things—so, I’ll say this another way. Year 1 exotics are still going to come from the sources that they came from—in year 2—when you play those year 1 activities. Now those aren’t exotics; those are legendaries. I believe, I think, many legendaries are also going to come from the same places. The problem with the two examples that you have, specifically, is the dragon strike playlist doesn’t exist anymore [and Trials won’t be back for a while].
Will it be possible to get stuff like that out of the legacy strike playlists?
I would like to believe it will be possible coming out of legacy [strikes].
You’re not sure though?
Well, our intent was for people to still get the old stuff in most cases. There are some things that are time-limited, like, this thing doesn’t exist any more. It was there for two weeks, and there it is, and you can’t get this Grimoire card anymore because that thing doesn’t happen anymore. But I think the intent would be for—I would check the legacy strike playlist for that. For the Trials things, it comes down to how they set up Trials in the future.
PR: Destiny’s always had seasons of gear. Like, you can’t get Shadow Price now. But anybody who kept it from vanilla Destiny, who was like, “Oh, I get to use etheric light and make it great, it was great in "House of Wolves.”
I still have a “Devil You Know” handcannon.
PR: Yeah, exactly. And so there are a lot of things like that that just as seasons come, gear comes and goes.
One of the most interesting things I’ve seen proposed, and it was just a Reddit comment or something, was to have a sort of “antiques dealer” vendor come around once in a while to sell gear that is normally no longer available anymore. Is that something you guys have discussed?
Yeah, I think even that exact idea has been proposed internally before. One of the things that we are doing, though it’s more as it relates to exotics, is Xur will have an exotic engram on him, called the “legacy engram,” which is a way that people can get year 1 exotics. And that will change, whether it’s like is it primary or it boots or is it whatever. And so for the collectors who are like “Ah, all I’m missing is this one fucking helmet, ah god! And I don’t want to go play the legacy strikes playlist for 15 hours or whatever and still get nothing,” this is a way that they can, you know—
So will Xur only be selling year 2 stuff?
Yeah, Xur’s going to move to year 2.
So we’ll be spending a lot of strange coins for the first few weeks.
You will spend all your strange coins in the first few weeks…he has another thing that we just started talking about this week with some of you, which is the “three of coins,” which is an item on him which is a consumable. When you use it it increases your chance of getting an exotic drop from the next boss that you kill. And so people are going to buy that a ton.
Will that apply to bosses in strikes, bosses in the Court of Oryx…
I don’t know if it applies to Court of Oryx. I believe it is many, many bosses in the game. So, like, one of the—Luke’s talked about the fantasy of Destiny, and it’s not like, saving up your money and buying something in the Tower, right? It’s like going out onto the field of battle, fighting a bunch of monsters with your friends, and then having something drop and you’re like “Holy fucking shit! I just got this thing!” Right? We want players to become powerful through their deeds, and like saving up your money is not like, the most powerful fantasy. But killing a dragon and getting his tail and using it as a weapon, that is awesome.
That’s some Dark Souls shit right there.
Yeah, exactly! And so the three of coins consumable helps reinforce this fantasy, like “I’m going to have one of these consumables and like, I’m going to pop this thing right before this boss, and maybe I’m going to get something better.” I think people are going to spend a lot of coins on that.
Destiny: The Taken King is available today.
Mike Rougeau is Playboy.com’s Gaming Editor, in charge of all things video games but mostly concerned with getting (even more) sweet Destiny loot. He lives in Los Angeles with his girlfriend and two dogs. Follow him on Twitter @RogueCheddar.
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