PB: What positives can you take from working for political change despite things not working out as you'd hoped?

MS: Well, I think after September 11th and leading up to the war in Iraq, the country was experiencing what I call the Great Quiet. People felt afraid to raise a voice of dissent against prevailing winds. That shifted, for me quite dramatically, and for a lot of people into a period of great activism. And I don't think that period is over. It didn't change the national political race, but I don't think it's gone away in the blink of an eye. I do believe kind of strongly that all things move in cycles. That's my wise assumption after 44 years on this earth. Everything ebbs and flows, and it's no different with politics. Simplistically dividing the world into us versus them makes me want to wretch, actually, but it's going to go really far one way before it swings back the other way. It saddens me that we don't have Kerry in office but.... [Pause] There's no "but."

PB: Musicians and celebrities who get involved in political activism are frequently dismissed as dilettantes. Has that ever discouraged you from getting involved?

MS: No, because I feel that's an attitude that largely came from the media. I don't think regular people were concerned about it until the media made a big deal out of it, or made people look stupid for doing so. Remember we live in a country that was governed for eight years in the '80s by a former actor -- and not a very good one. He was a much better presidential figure than he was an actor. And there are people who came from entertainment who are in very high offices now, so that argument just falls flat on its face. I've been a citizen of the United States much longer than I've been a public figure. The whole "shut up and sing" attitude really sprang from the media, and that I find really sickening.

PB: In March, Warner Bros. is reissuing eight R.E.M. albums with the usual trove of bonus tracks. What was it like to go back and listen to those old tracks?

MS: Well, to be perfectly frank, it was a job that was divided up between everyone in my office. [Laughs] I couldn't personally sit down and listen to all the old tracks myself. I can say that there's a lot of stuff that's never been heard or that was heard in very limited fashion that's now going to be available on CD.

PB: The musical landscape has changed drastically since R.E.M. started. When you began there wasn't any real commercial outlet for what you were doing. Now, alternative rock is big business. Do you feel any sense of accomplishment for having played an integral part in making that happen?

MS: Well, no. I don't personally sit around and think about that. I think that would be up to other people to say. It's not really my place. We didn't spearhead anything. We were part of a huge movement. We just happened to have the audacity to stay together.

PB: You guys are constantly held up as an example of a band that grew on its own terms, gradually increasing your audience without sacrificing artistic integrity. How much of that was by design?

MS: It wasn't by design. It was just that we were incredibly stubborn about what we wanted and didn't want to be. Mostly, it was a process of negation. We knew exactly the things we felt were compromising to us personally and to the work; those were things we just wouldn't do. So it left a menu of things that fit into our idea of what's acceptable and what isn't humiliating. As late as last week, we went and played a show in Mexico City, refusing to take the sponsorship necessary to have really good promotion down there. Yet we had an incredible, sold-out show. But sponsorship was a good example of something we said we weren't comfortable with.