PB: Such as?

AS: Jackson made South Africa a mainstream issue in this country. I remember in 1984 when he went into the debates, people were saying the [African National Congress] was a terrorist organization. Jackson made America shift views on that. [He also] was able to empower a lot of people who would not have held office. I don't think Doug Wilder would have been governor of Virginia hadn't Jesse run. Ron Brown certainly wouldn't have been the chair of the party hadn't Jesse run. Also, a lot of the votes in the South that Bill Clinton used to win in 1992, Jesse registered in the 1980s.

PB: Let's say you don't get the nomination. What kind of impact do you want to have on the party?

AS: I want to influence the direction of the party. I think the party has moved far to the right. I think that is why we have not been effective. This whole centrist move, which I consider a right move, hasn't worked politically. Centrists keep saying we can't win without going to the center. Well, they have been in charge of the party since 1992. It's 11 years later and we have lost everything. We lost the House in 1994 with Gingrich, and we failed to regain it in 1996, 1998, 2000 and 2002. How do you lose five Super Bowls and not say there is something wrong with this coach and this game plan? Aside from the fact that I don't believe in what they are saying -- pro death penalty, pro business, deregulation, pro NAFTA -- politically it hasn't even worked. They act as though they are outsiders shooting at the inside. They are the insiders. They have control of the party, and they have failed. They have put this party on its deathbed.

PB: Wouldn't you be able to help the party more effectively by winning a seat in Congress, which many people think you can?

AS: I think people ought to serve at the level they feel they can serve. I can serve nationally. Being in Congress I couldn't affect what I am affecting nationally. For example, I have been able to handle racial profiling cases all over this country. Vieques -- I couldn't have done any of this as a congressman. I certainly couldn't have stood with gay and lesbian rights nationally. So you can't fight a national fight and generate a national movement from a local seat. Also, if people are honest, there are only three or four nationally known black political figures anyway. I happen to be one of them. So why would I take a local seat when there are capable people to do that and there are not very many people who can do what I do nationally?

PB: Name five African Americans, other than yourself, who could be president today.

AS: Rev. Jackson. I would say [Clinton advisor] Vernon Jordan could be president. I would say [Clinton labor secretary] Alexis Herman could be president. I would say [San Francisco Mayor] Willie Brown could be president. Also [California Rep.] Maxine Waters and probably [New York Rep.] Charlie Rangel.

PB: Would you be a more viable candidate had the Tawana Brawley affair never happened?

AS: No. I think that anyone with my politics and profile, if they didn't raise Brawley, they would raise something else. When you compare some of the personal issues that they raised on a guy like Clinton, the fact that I stood up for a young lady for justice, who I believed in, pales in comparison to some of that stuff.

PB: Are you offended that Bill Clinton is called "America's first black president"?