Q 13

PLAYBOY: When that happens, which films would you most like to own?

Roger Ebert: The first movie: the Beatles' A Hard Day's Night. Every time I've seen it--and I must have seen it a dozen times--it's been delightful. I'll probably buy Pink Floyd: The Wall. Also Citizen Kane and Casablanca, to watch a couple of times a year.

Gene Siskel: I'd build a collection of silent movies. I would like to study them more. That grows out of an interview I did with Fellini, in which he told me that he felt the cinema art had not progressed beyond the silent era. I suspect he's right. One of my favorite films is City Lights. I would want a copy of that.

Q 14

PLAYBOY: Did you lose it at the movies?

Gene Siskel: No. What Pauline Kael may have meant in titling her book I Lost It at the Movies is that she lost her innocence. The world came rushing in through the movies. The world did not come rushing in for me there. However, there were a couple of movie experiences that told me the way the world was. I remember the anger in the sound track in A Streetcar Named Desire. I just remember people yelling as I had never heard before, because I came from a nice family. I remember the colors in A Star Is Born and the fantasy in Peter Pan and Song of the South. I remember being carried away. But I'd be stretching a point to say I lost it at the movies.

Roger Ebert: I think I probably lost more of my innocence at the movies than Gene did, because I grew up in a sophisticated but nevertheless small town in downstate Illinois. Movies were my window into the adult world. There were things that went on that adults understood, such as mixing cocktails or smoking or business meetings. But kids always felt as if the door were being closed on them. At the movies, the door was always open and you were allowed to sit there and uncritically take it all in and think about it later. A lot of us in this country got our lessons on how to behave from the movies. I Lost It at the Movies is a brilliant title not only because of what we did lose at the movies but also because of what we found there.

Q 15

PLAYBOY: What about the other kind of innocence? For instance, the movie Diner immortalized the "popcorn surprise." Are there other lascivious tricks you can play on movie-going companions that we should know about?

Roger Ebert: First of all, the popcorn surprise has been around as long as popcorn. I think the ancient Egyptians had the same trick, except they used pine nuts. The pine-nut surprise. As far as I'm concerned, it's an apocryphal story.

But I remember the anxiety over whether or not you were going to hold hands. You know, her hand was kind of down on her leg; yours was on your leg. An eighth of an inch by an eighth of an inch, the two hands would slink toward each other until finally one tentative little finger reached out to make contact with alien flesh. And there was a jerk. She straightened up; then you straightened up. You both looked at the movie. Then--creep, creep, creep--you tried again. They had to have double features back then, because it took you three hours to get those hands together.

The first time I ever want to the movies with a girl, we saw The Bridge on the River Kwai. To this day, whenever I think of Alec Guinness, I get a little excited.

Gene Siskel: The only thing I can recall is the old stretch, where you yawned so you could let your arm drape around a girl. It's been used for years, and it works. That was one of my all-time-favorite ploys. I was always stretching in the movies. And then came the dangerous letting-the-hand-drop-over-the-shoulder, hoping to feel...Angora.

Q 16

PLAYBOY: Let's play doctor to the stars. Name patients, diagnoses and remedies.

Roger Ebert: The doctors are in, and we're g.p.s. Burt Reynolds: He could improve his career by never again answering the phone if the caller were Hal Needham, the man who makes all those movies in which Burt co-stars with the contents of Honest John's used-car lot. Meryl Streep: It's time for her to make a comedy with Jack Nicholson. Richard Gere: I think he should be assigned obligatory underwear to be painted on before he begins any movie. Woody Allen: The more autobiographical he is, the better he is. Chevy Chase: He started out as a writer, so the first time he ever stepped in front of a camera he was poking fun at himself, sort of saying, "I'm not really an actor; I'm kidding you, I'm really a writer." If he's going to go any further in the movies, he's going to have to give that up and just be an actor.

Gene Siskel: OK, let's operate. Steve Martin: He would do better as a writer; his comedies don't build. Dudley Moore: Stay as sweet as you are. I have no negative advice for him--just reach for bigger and better things. Bo Derek: I think she should take her clothes off in every movie she does. She has a fabulous body, and I would pay five bucks to see it any time. Eddie Murphy: He could do anything; his next move ought to be to take the risk and go for a more dramatic role. Robert Redford and Al Pacino: Don't try to be the head honcho; try playing a smaller, supporting role just to get back to being an actor--à la Jack Nicholson in Terms of Endearment. It was a gutsy move for a very big star, and it's going to supercharge Nicholson's career for the next few years.

Q 17

PLAYBOY: How do you get perfect popcorn?

Roger Ebert: First, get a black-cast-iron skillet, the kind with a heavy lid. The heavier the lid, the more the moisture will be trapped inside, causing more succulent kernels. You have to use real butter, real salt and good popcorn. Melt some butter in the skillet, throw in the popcorn and put on the lid. The moment you hear the first eight or nine kernels pop, start to slide it back and forth on the fire. Then, when it really starts to pop, you've got to go like crazy, banging it on top of the stove. You're not making popcorn unless people in the next room can't have a conversation because you're banging that pan so hard.

Gene Siskel: I know where to buy perfect popcorn, the kind not even Roger can make. I buy it at Garrett's popcorn shop in downtown Chicago. Garrett's has never given me a bag, so this is no trade-off here. It makes very good caramel corn, and I like it hot and gooey. Then I have the clerk mix it--this is going to sound absolutely disgusting--with cheese corn, so you get a sweet-and-sour combination that's fabulous, and I love it. I buy that stuff before I go to the movie to avoid the prepackaged imitation popcorn that's been sitting for a week or more. People get ripped off in the quality of popcorn in the theaters.

Q 18

PLAYBOY: Is popcorn tax deductible?

Gene Siskel: Whenever I buy popcorn, it goes right on my expense account at the Chicago Tribune. That's part of my arrangement. I said that it's an occupational hazard. I can't control my buying the stuff. The smell is intoxicating.

Roger Ebert: That's fabulous. You know, back when he was dating, he'd tell the girl, "Come on, have a popcorn and a Coke--I can put it on my expense account." The last of the big-time spenders. I don't have an arrangement like that at my paper. They said, "Frankly, with the amount of popcorn you're likely to eat, we couldn't afford to pick up the tab. We'll just give you a car." Only joking.

Q 19

PLAYBOY: Why do we get the feeling you like each other a lot more than most people would imagine?

Gene Siskel: You know that old line "The more you know a person, the harder it is for you to dislike him"? That's absolutely true. Roger and I intensely disliked each other. We perceived each other as a threat to our well-being, to our professional security. And we were thrown together a few years ago, but we couldn't keep our distance. We got closer. At this point, the only person who knows him better is his mother.

I wish that I got to know more people at the level at which I know Roger--because I do care for him. I would feel terrible if his life didn't turn out well, and I will gain great joy if we're both hanging around 30 years from now and having a good time. We have shared a sort of magical time together, talking about one of the things we love so much: the movies.

Roger Ebert: I would agree with what Gene said. It is true that when he started out, I didn't like him too much, because I was the youngest film critic in Chicago, the hot-shot. And suddenly they had this kid over at the Tribune--a Yale graduate, no less. Of course, that was a strike against him right away. And he was a few years younger, so I perceived him as a threat. One of the peculiar things about working in any profession is that, as you get into your work, more and more you do it by yourself. Certainly, movie critics may read other critics, but they do not collaborate with them in any way. So when we started doing this show, we found that we had never had a serious conversation with each other about the movies. I realized that I respected the guy and that I enjoyed his company. We've been through a lot over the past six or seven years. During that time, he has gotten married and now he's a parent. I've been able to share his joy over those developments. So, yes, at the present moment, I do treasure his friendship. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean that we hang out together. In fact, he still has never invited me to his house for dinner.

Q 20

PLAYBOY: What's the most fun you can have in the dark?

Gene Siskel: Sex.

Roger Ebert: Shouting "Start the movie!"