Swing's Holli and Michael: What Everyone Gets Wrong

By Playboy.com Staff

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<p>Playboy TV's Michael and Holli explain the swinger lifestyle.</p>


Playboy TV’s Swing regulars and hosts of Playboy Radio’s Swing with Michael and Holli, Michael and Holli are the go-to experts for couples, single men and single women looking to experience a happier, healthier, sexier relationship. We spoke to them about the common misconceptions the public has about the swinger lifestyle.

Playboy: What would you like everyone to know about swinging that most people may not realize?

Michael: Being a swinger, being “in the lifestyle” or as we also call it, “living sexy,” is an attitude, not an action! It’s people possessing an open mind and acceptance of others, and being okay that the world is changing in regards to what’s possible with sex. To be in the lifestyle doesn’t mean you have to have sex with a bunch of strangers or trade your wife for another man’s wife for an hour of uncomfortable sex.

There are swingers who are voyeurs, that is, liking to watch, and exhibitionists, getting off on having others watch. Then you have those into what we call “soft swap”—that's nonmonogamous physical action up to foreplay, but no penetration. And then there's “full swap,” where anything goes within you and your partner’s pre-set rules and boundaries.

Holli: People have this conception of what swingers are based on what they were in the ’50s, ’60s, ’70s; we're not your grandparents’ swingers. Get the images of shag carpeting, bowls full of keys, smoke-filled rooms, shady clubs and horny older people who may not be in the best of shape out of your mind.

Michael: The modern swinger is your next-door neighbor, it is that judge sitting behind the bench, it’s that schoolteacher, it’s the person delivering your mail and it’s the person cutting your hair.

Holli: Also, we’re not a group of sexual deviants and perverts living outside of society in some kind of daily haze of sex and partying. Most of us have full, vibrant lives.

Michael: I'm a member of the PTA. We have two children, and just like moms and dads not in the lifestyle don't share what they do sexually with their children or family, neither do we.

Playboy.com: So there’s no one right way to swing? There’s a lot variety in the lifestyle?

Michael: There’s more variety than you can imagine. Two women together, two women and a man together, two men and a woman, three couples, and you can find orgies. Some people like more one-on-one intimate settings so that partners may only play with one other couple.

Some people have what we call the “Pretty Woman rule”: you can have sex with a partner but not kiss them, as kissing is too intimate. There's no sexual hierarchy, there's no one correct way to swing or to be in the lifestyle.

Holli: A lot of people think you're going to enter a swinger's club or a party and be attacked by a pack of sex-hungry swingers; it's not like that all, it's respectful. There’s no expectation or pressure to walk into a club, party or home and immediately have sex with someone. Many of the contemporary lifestyle clubs—the best ones—they’re swank! We’re talking high-end nightclubs offering everything a good club has, like dancing, DJs and great company, and if you choose to play then you can go into the back to the private space and play.

Michael: The newbies we meet, like some of those who come on Swing, they really start to blossom once they start to live sexy. Sometimes in society people just want to hear "It's okay." And when you let someone know it's okay to just be yourself then that person begins to grow.

Holli: They realize who they truly are, even if they never take part in anything usually thought of as sex. They realize they're beautiful people. People will come to the lifestyle with their insecurities and their worries and find a lot of relief, a lot of resolution through such an accepting community.

Michael: Whether you're down for sex or just want to hang out in the social area having a bottle of water, talking about life with people, we love you and accept you because you're willing to have an open mind. Some couples come and hang out and go home and have the best sex they've ever had. They never touch another person, just each other, but it turns them on, makes them feel alive again; this makes them feel welcome in the world.

Holli: They don't have to hide who they are or hide their fantasies.

Playboy.com: Is this a male-led movement? Some would say it’s just an excuse for guys to sleep with as many women as possible.

Michael: It is an absolute myth that men are the dominant force in the lifestyle. Recently I read about a new study looking at lifestyle couples, and 73 percent of all the people in the lifestyle are there because the woman made the decision to enter the swinger lifestyle; it was the woman who said, "Let’s do it." Sure, in some of those cases the guy could have brought up the idea, but it was the lady who decided when it happened and became a reality.

Holli: Society in general has trouble understanding that women desire and want sex for the sake of sex.

Michael: On that topic, another major misconception is that single women never enter the lifestyle. That’s completely incorrect. We jokingly call such women "unicorns" because, traditionally, they're thought of as mythological creatures. No one can believe that a single woman would want to have NSA sex with couples or with others in the lifestyle, only for her own pleasure and for no other reason.

In the 1960s and ’70s we had the sexual revolution; today we have sexual evolution where women are proud about wanting sex on their own terms. On the flipside, there's those who think the lifestyle must be full of sex-starved single men. Of course there's single men but they have to be respectful and conscious of boundaries to get anywhere in the lifestyle.

Holli: No one is perfect. No community is perfect. But we're a relatively small community and we're self-regulating. We stick together like a family. And if there's someone not acting in a proper manner they'll be ostracized.

Playboy.com: So to be in the lifestyle you have to be in an open relationship?

Michael: It’s both simpler and more complex than the terms and labels people outside of the lifestyle have. Holli and I, we're emotionally monogamous, 100 percent emotionally monogamous. However, physically we're not monogamous. There’s nothing wrong if Holli's fantasizing about Gerard Butler while we're having sex.

Holli: I’m fantasizing about him right now! [laughs]

Michael: Because I know she doesn't want Gerard Butler more than me, so I'm happy to know she finds someone else attractive. Finding someone attractive is different than being attracted to them. If Holli is emotionally attracted to someone then something's missing from our relationship. But what we have she can share with me and I can share with her, we can share this deep sexual aspect of ourselves.

Holli: I wasn't in the lifestyle before I met Michael and I've learned so much about myself in the five years we've been together.

Michael: At this point Holli chooses to play with a lot of women, and I mean a lot, and if a woman pleasures her in a way that I could never do I don't get jealous. I don’t get mad. I might say, "Damn, how come I don't know how to do that?" So maybe I ask that woman to teach me.  Or I ask Holli to share with me what that woman did so I can attempt to do it also for her. Because life is about learning.

Holli: About pleasure and learning.

See Michael and Holli on Swing Season 4! The final episode just aired last Saturday and now the entire season is available to stream, on demand, on Playboy TV. 


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