With viewership of 13th, Ava DuVernay’s 2016 documentary about the insidious rise in mass incarceration, surging by 4,665 percent in the weeks after George Floyd’s death, it’s clear that the Black Lives Matter protests are impacting the way the masses view our criminal justice system. But four years after the film’s release, we still see rampant incarceration and injustice across the country. So the question is, What do we do to combat it? Community Justice Exchange is one of the crucial organizations working to put an end to criminalization in all its forms.

In 2016, the organization’s founder and director, Pilar Weiss, launched the National Bail Fund Network, a directory of bail funds accessible to people affected by incarceration. Realizing that its initial focus solely on the bail system was too narrow, she founded Community Justice Exchange two years later to create a nationwide framework to organize and address the multifaceted issue of criminal justice reform.

“We started Community Justice Exchange in order to support grassroots groups that were working on combating detention in all its forms, including probation, parole, court fees and fines, pretrial detention, immigration detention, supervision, surveillance and, of course, bail,” Weiss tells me. With 10 core team members across the country and organizations in 35 states, the group has effectively spread its resources to the individuals and organizations that need them most.

What follows is an edited conversation between Weiss and I about the organization’s challenges, triumphs and vision for a more just society.

PLAYBOY: Can you break down why mass incarceration is unjust and why there’s a need to combat it?

PILAR WEISS: So many people across the country are impacted by mass incarceration—nearly half of the people in the United States have a close relative who has been incarcerated. It has profound effects on people’s livelihoods and their family units. My family and my community have personally been affected by incarceration and criminalization, so it has always been top of mind for me.

PLAYBOY: In a perfect world, what would our justice system look like?

WEISS: It’s an exciting time right now because folks who were not familiar with the long tradition of analysis around what it would look like to abolish the prison system are starting to become acquainted with it. We have to dismantle this humongous system that, in many places, soaks up a significant part of city budgets so it’s not going to happen overnight.

Ultimately, we should figure out new ways to address harm. We’re not saying that harm is going to stop; we’re saying that jails and prisons are not a way to solve it. We need to completely revise how we deal with community safety. The vision is that there are no prisons or police, and instead we reinvest in community services and resources.

PLAYBOY: What are some of the more pressing obstacles your organization faces?

WEISS: The systems we’re working to dismantle are incredibly powerful, well-funded and secretive. For example, the administration keeps changing laws to make seeking asylum practically impossible and to encourage the police, Department of Homeland Security and ICE to make arrests and put people in immigration detention centers. We’re working against a system that’s incredibly powerful and incredibly committed to oppressing people.

PLAYBOY: What is your focus as an organization right now?

WEISS: We’re working on a lot of issues related to Covid. Jails and detention centers have become hotspots for Covid, so we have been pushing for the release of people and the end of jailing people pretrial. We have had some success with that—since March, the funds that are part of the National Bail Fund Network have paid bail and bond to free over 5,000 people—but oftentimes people are released under supervision. We continue to push back on that and advocate for people truly being free. Also, a lot of courts are postponing and rescheduling their court dates because of Covid. In the past, people would be penalized or rearrested for missing their court date, so we’re trying to point out that double standard and make long-term changes to penalization.

PLAYBOY: How has the legalization of cannabis in various states affected your work?

WEISS: Legalizing the use or sale of cannabis might reduce the number of people being arrested for those reasons, but that’s just the first layer. The system has not dealt with the fact that there are many people in jails and prisons because of three-strikes laws or the fact that someone’s past record might be affecting their life right now. There’s been some work around expungement and the review of cases, but it’s happening slowly.

We haven’t seen a mass decrease in the jail population though, which tells us that cops who used to arrest people for marijuana possession could now be arresting people for something else. People are still being racially profiled. Traffic stops and deportation are still huge problems that affect Black and Latinx communities.

PLAYBOY: What has been a rewarding experience that has stood out during your time with CJE?

WEISS: We’ve often had multiple organizations come together across different states to make sure that somebody’s bond is paid and that there’s a plan to get them back to their family. Seeing that level of collaboration between groups that are standing up for a stranger has restored my faith in humanity. That was part of the reason we named the organization Community Justice Exchange. Oftentimes the court proceedings are “the people vs. so and so.” So as a community we have to come back and say, “No, you’re not going to do that in our name.”

PLAYBOY: What are some actionable ways people can support your organization and your work?

WEISS: Donate. Get in touch with local organizations and volunteer. There are so many different ways to support the work; sometimes it’s monetary, sometimes it’s with people power and sometimes it’s with folks having tough conversations with their loved ones and educating them about what is happening in the world.