Maybe economics talk has nothing to do with the bedroom. 

While appearing on the latest episode of the podcast Impaulsive, hosted by influencer Paul Logan and YouTuber Mike Maljak, Looksmaxxer Clavicular spoke to the pair in depth about his own sex life, which included boasting that, because it takes him too long to make a woman cum, he’s given up the hunt for the big O. 

“How important is it to you to also make the girl have an orgasm?” Paul asks his guest, who has just finished speaking about why he doesn’t watch porn when jerking off. 

“Not important,” Clavicular says, prompting co-host Maljak to laugh, in a way that feels as if it’s at Clavicular and not with him. 

“The amount of extra effort that’s required to do that is just not gonna have much ROI,” Clavicular says, prompting Paul to bend over and guffaw and even eliciting audible chuckles from the camera crew. Paul clarifies that Clavicular is referring to return on investment.

The most awkward of silences follows. So, Clavicular explains his logic. “There’s not an activity in that — let’s just call it 15 minutes, let’s be realistic — that you could be doing that’s going to guarantee a long-term relationship?” he said, talked down from his initial 30-minute timeframe. “In 15 minutes, I could set up to do my Stake stream, a million different things. I could take an important phone call.” 

He continued, “I could think of one million better things that’s gonna make a girl want to be with me in the long term rather than just a simple fleeting orgasm.” 

Maljak, who understands that mutual pleasure is an important part of a relationship, suggests Clav use a vibrator to make his partner’s orgasm “less work”—but Clavicular thinks that’s “cucked.”

There are a million things to say about Clavicular proudly claiming he can’t make his partner c*m, but let’s put those aside and focus on his comparison of sexual pleasure to profit and loss estimates. Unsurprisingly, experts who spoke to Playboy were not on board with Clavicular’s use of investment-based language to talk about his partner’s sexual pleasure. 

“What I hear is someone treating sex like a transaction rather than a connection,” Ilana Grines, a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified sex therapist. Grines added that this type of language shows that a person thinks of people “not as partners but as products that aren’t worth the effort.” 

“If giving a woman an orgasm feels like a poor return on his investment, that suggests he doesn’t actually experience her pleasure as part of his pleasure,” Grines said. “If that’s not on the menu for him, the experience he’s having is closer to using someone than being with them.” 

And, Clavicular has essentially said this before. In a February profile, the New York Times reported that he “confessed that knowing he could have sex with a woman was in some ways better than the deed itself, which ‘is going to gain me nothing.’” Comparing sex to an investment portfolio wasn’t surprising to Tara Jones, a sex ed content creator and educator at Love and Lust. 

“Much of the appeal of looksmaxxing seems to be that it frames dating for men in terms of logic and science rather than emotion,” she said. “When the female orgasm gets framed in terms of ROI, I see it as a continuation of an older social narrative: that sex is inherently not about women; it’s for the benefit of men.” 

Sadly, an orgasm gap does exist when it comes to men and women during sex. One study found that, while 95% of straight men orgasm during sex, only 65% of straight women do. Straight women were also the demographic — among men and women, divided by straight, bisexual and gay — that had the lowest rate of orgasm during sex. 

Another study found that more than 8 in 10 women can’t orgasm from penetrative sex alone and need clitoral stimulation to climax. Researchers writing in the Archives of Sexual Behavior labeled genital stimulation, deep kissing and oral sex as the “golden trio” of getting a woman to finish. 

And that kind of stimulation is always worth the effort. 

“Even in a one night stand, the baseline ethic is mutual pleasure and care,” Grines said. “You don’t have to be in love with someone to want them to feel good.” 

Grines also noted that, despite Clavicular’s penis-forward sexual ethos, there’s nothing “cucked” about bringing a vibrator into the bedroom to help your partner orgasm. 

“The only reason a sex toy would feel emasculating is if your masculinity is built on the idea that your partner shouldn’t have other options for pleasure,” she said. “A vibrator isn’t competition, it’s a tool.”

Ultimately, Grines said that Clavicular’s rhetoric might point to the fact that the way he currently has sex is not ultimately very pleasurable for him, either. 

“Honestly the saddest part isn’t even the misogyny, it’s that he’s describing sex as joyless and extractive for himself, too,” Grines said. “Nobody who actually enjoys sex talks about it like a portfolio.”