A key draw of Tiger King, the Netflix series that has become 2020’s omnipresent pop culture phenomenon, is that each cast member seems more eccentric and baffling than the last. This helps to explain why zoo employee Saff Saffery has emerged as a breakout star: He’s one of the few voices of reason on the show.

Saffery worked for Joseph Maldonado-Passage, a.k.a. Joe Exotic, at the G.W. Zoo in Oklahoma for nearly a decade before leaving in 2018. Footage of the 2013 tiger attack that led to the amputation of the Hawaii native’s left hand is one of the most visceral and jarring moments on a show lousy with jaw-dropping reveals.

Saffery seems conflicted about his decision to move to southern California and take a job that doesn’t involve animals, given his enduring passion for wildlife. But he’s certainly enjoying his celebrity—relishing photo opportunities with excited fans during essential shopping trips and even joining Cameo to deliver heartfelt messages at $75 a pop.

Taking a call from Playboy last weekend, he was as upbeat and forthright as ever while discussing his life before, during and after the filming of the series. Saffery, who turns 34 this year, spoke at length about the show’s depiction of sexuality, including Joe Exotic’s marriages, the continued investigation into the disappearance of Carole Baskin’s husband, the one thing he wishes the show did differently and the tweets stating Saffery was misgendered on the show. Attention, Hollywood casting directors: He also has thoughts on whether a certain Twilight hunk should portray him in a hypothetical film adaptation.

PLAYBOY: Tiger King includes footage from the tiger attack that cost you your hand. Is that a moment you think about often?

SAFFERY: More so lately. It’s definitely been part of my conversation, but I’ve kind of pushed past it. Other traumatic events have happened in my life that I’ve done the same to. The documentary showed the clip, which my family and friends hadn’t seen. That brought it to a more real state as far as my relationships, because they’re like, “Holy smokes, we had no idea it was like that.” They only know what I tell them.

Of course, when the news covered it in 2013, they never showed that clip at all. It was interesting to revisit it in such a real form, because before that it was very cosmetic: It was very “Yeah, this happened. He bit me, and I went to the hospital, and that’s it.” Now they’ve seen it from front to back. I don’t think there’s any negative that I pull from it. I got through it, and I moved on, and I keep doing so every day.

PLAYBOY: Your situation is certainly inspiring for anyone going through similar trauma.

SAFFERY: It’s all about leaning on each other too. John Reinke, the park manager, had already lost his legs at that point. I met him when he had no legs, and what they don’t show is that he walked me through it hand in hand. It was always nice to have him around to help me navigate being an amputee. The best we can do is share our experiences. You never know who you’re helping out.

PLAYBOY: Did you feel pressured to come back to the zoo right away?

SAFFERY: No, no, no. I never felt pressured, and I know it was somewhat portrayed that way. I can understand that, but what people need to realize is what I’ve said a hundred times, and I’ll say it again: There was nothing in that hospital for me. I wanted out of there so badly because I knew the longer I stayed, the bigger of a story this was going to become. If the story got too big, then the park could have been shut down, and that’s the animals’ home. Where would they go from there? If I was pressured by anything, it was my passion for those animals.

PLAYBOY: You started at the G.W. Zoo in 2010, after you got out of the Army. What is a job interview with Joe Exotic like?

SAFFERY: I don’t think we even had an interview. I didn’t know who he was; after the Army I just googled “getting to interact with tigers.” I was in my late 20s, and we started corresponding by e-mail. We went back and forth for about a week because I was still in Fort Sill. When I finally made it out there, I remember waiting in the front gift shop, and they called him over the radio. He walks through the door—and mind you, I’d been on his website, so I’d seen pictures of him. I knew exactly who he was, but I didn’t know his personality. He comes in 100 percent Joe Exotic, right off the bat. The second you meet him, he just solidifies everything you think of him.

PLAYBOY: There’s so much sexuality to this show, between the polyamory and the tigers being used to attract women in Vegas. What do you make of all that?

SAFFERY: When you look at a tiger, the only thing you can feel is attraction to it. It’s a beautiful animal, and not only is it beautiful, it’s dangerous and mysterious. In my opinion, women like bad boys. What’s more badass than a tiger? I’ll wait, but I don’t think you’ll find something. [laughs] I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people react with shock-appeal when they see a tiger. From kids all the way up to adults, it’s just something everyone’s attracted to.

PLAYBOY: What’s your take on Joe’s sex appeal and how he’s so alluring to younger men?

SAFFERY: Boy, that’s definitely something I stayed away from when I was on the park. I stayed as far outside that world as possible because it really had nothing to do with the animals. And this is just my opinion, but if you look at everyone in that documentary, they’re living their life their way, and they’re all unapologetically happy. Who am I to even touch that?

The only time it ever came into play in conversations between Joe and me was if it affected animal care. Travis was one of the ones who brought that up the most. Travis, he was a joy of life, but he got into everything and made it so hard for the employees to do anything. He was just a mess. He would hide in the bushes and scare them as they were trying to do chores. It was funny, but it slowed down the chore day for sure.

PLAYBOY: How loving were Joe’s marriages?

SAFFERY: As loving as one could say. I know that these boys, these men, came in and were just dumped with all of this: “Here’s this, here’s that, here’s this, here’s that.” I am not John, and I am not Travis, so I’ve never been put in that position. As far as what I could see with my own eyes, yeah, it was loving. I’m sure there was more to it; I just never got involved.

PLAYBOY: The show seems to suggest that John and Travis identified as straight.

SAFFERY: I don’t think they were ever able to identify in general because people just assumed, “Oh, you’re with Joe? You’re Joe’s husband? Oh, you’re gay.” I can tell you right now, they loved women, both of them, 100 percent, but they also went home with Joe every night. I never asked, because I don’t care. You do your thing and I’ll do mine. And it’s not like Joe was putting handcuffs on them at the end of the night and making them go home with him. They went home to him. That’s a fact, but I do know they liked women. I’ve seen John smile at women. Travis is the same. He’s a young boy from California. He’s a ladies’ man.

PLAYBOY: Was Travis an animal lover? What was the appeal for him?

SAFFERY: I know he enjoyed being around the animals. He even helped with taking care of the babies; you can’t say no to someone who did something like that, because that takes dedication. More important for Travis and Joe was what they got out of it. Travis was a young kid when he came to the park. When you throw a bunch of toys in front of a young kid, they’ll do anything you ask. Same with John. John is young, and you throw the keys to the Mustang and here’s a new four-wheeler—that’s kind of the dynamic there. Again, I didn’t care as long as it didn’t affect animal care, and it never did.

PLAYBOY: What role did drugs play in all this?

SAFFERY: If you’re asking if there were drugs on park—absolutely, man. Of course there was, but I stayed away from it. I’m not condoning that whatsoever, but it did play a role. This is real, and that’s what their life was—just fun, drugs, party. Did it all over again the next day, and they were happy doing it, so it didn’t bother me. Joe was as smart about it as he could be. It’s the same as a rock star’s lifestyle, with all the attention and all the finances. That’s what they did.

PLAYBOY: There has been discussion on social media that you were misgendered by the show: A chryon identifies you as “Kelci ‘Saff’ Saffery,” and Rick Kirkham uses “her” in reference to you. Do you identify as part of the LGBTQ community?

SAFFERY: It’s funny that it’s come up, because I never thought about that. It’s never been part of a conversation that I’ve ever had, but obviously it’s out there, and it’s a huge community. They’ve always had issues with fighting for their rights to anything. I don’t want to dismiss them, but I just have never personally been a part of it. Not against it; it’s just never been a part of my daily life.

I’ve obviously always lived as he, him and his. From the moment I was able to even be self-aware, it’s never even come up, so it’s literally the smallest part of this entire thing as far as concerns for me. People were saying, “They misgendered you, and they’re not using your right pronouns.” I genuinely didn’t even see that. I was more concerned about telling my story.

PLAYBOY: Just to be specific, given the viral tweet about your identity, you don’t identify as trans?

SAFFERY: Not at all. I actually had to do some research, because I’m very uneducated in that department. By definition, I am not even that, so even if I wanted to, I couldn’t, because I’ve had zero work done. I’ve had nothing done. It’s not something I don’t want to talk about; it’s just something I honestly up until this point have not.

PLAYBOY: What is your relationship status right now?

SAFFERY: I am committed, and I have been committed, and she’s wonderful. Honestly, I wouldn’t have gotten through this time without her, so I’m glad she’s there. It’s been long-term, and it’s always good to have a partner in crime, though she wasn’t involved in the filming.

PLAYBOY: Have your children watched the show?

SAFFERY: So far they have not. My kids are 11, five and a teeny, tiny little baby. The oldest one has been asking to watch, and I’m not sure about it, just because there are things on there I wouldn’t want any 11-year-old to see. At the same time, it’s hard. This is a good parenting stumper for me, and we’re still working through that. The other day we were walking through the store, and people were coming up to me and asking to take pictures. My oldest one was like, “Why? What’s going on?” The more it affects them, the more I’m obviously going to have to let them into what’s going on—but right now, I leave it surface-level with them.

PLAYBOY: So you now have a more traditional day job?

SAFFERY: I do. I just work at a warehouse right now, and it pays the bills. When I moved out here to Redlands, California earlier this year, I told myself, “I’m just going to start over.” The reason I left Oklahoma was because, even though I left the park in 2018, it still followed me no matter where I went in that state. I just wanted to get away from it. Obviously, it’s always on my mind. I miss those animals every day—every single day. It was such a big part of my life for almost 10 years. It consumed me, and I loved every second of it. But I was born and raised in Hawaii, so my only thought was, “I need to put my feet in the sand again.”

PLAYBOY: It feels appropriate that Joe was running for president in the same election that Trump won.

SAFFERY: He definitely had a Trump thing going on, so at that time it was the perfect storm as far as Joe running. It was just the best of the worst in that case. I try to avoid politics at all costs. The most political I’ve ever been is being in the military.

PLAYBOY: In a recent interview, the filmmakers refer to Joe as a racist. Did you deal with that in working with him?

SAFFERY: Yeah. Joe has a loud mouth. There’s no denying that I’ve heard him say things I definitely don’t agree with. When I mentioned things to him as far as “You can’t say that,” it made it worse. It’s almost like he wants someone to tell him not to so he can go ahead and do it more. It’s just a matter of standing up for what you know is right. If it’s happening in front of me, which it has, it’s a matter of correcting it immediately. If it’s some kind of media stunt or something he’s filming, the more you entice, the louder he’s going to get. Joe definitely had a lot to say about a lot of people, and it wasn’t always good. At the end of the day, his words are his responsibilities, and he needs to be accountable for them.

PLAYBOY: Just in talking with you, it’s clear how passionate you are about animals. Some viewers expressed concern that not everyone involved with the show seemed to make the animals the top priority. Is that valid?

SAFFERY: That’s the one thing the show lacked: showing how much we did on park, how much we interacted with those animals and how much we sacrificed for those animals. Some days we were working 14-, 15-hour days making sure the water was filled to the top and that there was a clean, dry, warm space for them to sleep in; during the winter, we had to go around and make sure all the temps were perfect. Then you’re constantly worrying about that when you’re at home, sleeping. “If I’m cold right now, then they’ve got to be cold right now.” You were never off of taking care of animals.

With the number of employees that came through, there were some that literally came there for some money in their pocket or somewhere to stay. But at the heart of it were the diehard employees who were there 100 percent for the animals. That was something they failed to show in the documentary, and I can understand people’s reactions to that. I’ve actually thought that myself on a daily basis: Am I doing enough? The feuds between Joe and Carole, and between Jeff Lowe and Joe, were put at the forefront of everything. The day that my mission with those animals on that park came to a screeching halt, that’s when I left.

PLAYBOY: What’s your take on the investigation into the plot to kill Carole Baskin that has landed Joe in prison?

SAFFERY: I heard about this entire thing while I was still on park, actually. Don’t get me wrong—Joe has said “I want her dead” every day that I’ve known him. But it was always just in typical Joe fashion. He talks a lot. I never considered any of it to go any further than right there. When I heard about his arrest, I had already left the zoo. I was shocked, because it’s like, “Holy smokes, it went that far.” When I watched the documentary I realized why: They pushed for it. These people we work with in the animal industry obviously had a different agenda than I was aware, and I never even cared to be concerned with it. I was watching that part almost as a viewer right alongside you guys.

PLAYBOY: In a recent interview from prison, Joe said he was sorry for some of the ways he’s acted. Can he be redeemed?

SAFFERY: I would hope so. The draw for me, on paper, is that Joe mentions that he built this park in honor of his late brother, and that he promised him at the end of his life that he was going to bring these animals his brother dreamed of seeing in the wild. He was going to be able to do that for other people. That’s beautiful, and that was part of the draw for me—to bring this dream to so many people who otherwise wouldn’t be able to experience it. Because I’m one of those people. I hope he draws back to that at least, and that he remembers why he started it in the first place.

PLAYBOY: You were asked to be involved in the legal proceedings, and you opted against it. Was that a tough decision?

SAFFERY: It was not. When I disconnected from the park, I knew I did not want to be a part of any of it, and I stand by that. I actually didn’t even want to be a part of the documentary. Their exact words were “This story’s going to be told with or without you, and you have a hell of a story. You should be the one to tell it.” The catch there for me was, “Man, I don’t want anyone telling my story. I want it to be the real story.” That is why I chose to participate in the documentary, and I’m very glad I did.

PLAYBOY: The sheriff has reopened the case involving the disappearance of Carole’s late husband, Don Lewis, and some leads have been coming in. How do you feel about that?

SAFFERY: Honestly, I’m glad, because he left behind two daughters. They’re adults, but there are two women out there—three, actually, if you include his ex-wife—and I feel they need answers. I would want answers if my father just disappeared.

PLAYBOY: A lot of people involved with the show seem to think Carole was involved in his death. Was that on your mind while you were working there?

SAFFERY: No. It was honestly never, ever on my mind. Carole’s a very different kind of person. She’s not your average Carole walking around the street. Anything is possible, honestly, but I didn’t know her personally. I had one direct interaction with her, but that’s about it.

PLAYBOY: Is it tough to watch yourself on TV?

SAFFERY: It was, yes. It’s always different, especially when you’re watching with others. It made a difference that I was able to watch it by myself. I’ll be honest: It was very entertaining for me. A lot of things that came up were like, Whoa. It was surreal to watch myself be a part of that madness.

PLAYBOY: What made you decide to join Cameo?

SAFFERY: Holy smokes, it’s insane to me, for one, that anyone would want me to say anything to them. These are strangers, in reality. I don’t know the last time I’ve actually had an interaction or a conversation with a perfect stranger. And then of course it’s even crazier that people are actually sending in requests. Definitely nuts to me, man.

PLAYBOY: Any memorable requests so far?

SAFFERY: One was for a five-year-old’s birthday; he watched the show and is a big fan. I have a five-year-old, and don’t get me wrong, he’s my biggest fan, but that’s my kid. The part that hit home for me was that I’m affecting the lives of people and really we have nothing in common. I have nothing in common with this little five-year-old. His favorite animal is a tiger, and that was the commonality right there. I was that five-year-old at one point. My favorite animal was a tiger, and I couldn’t imagine Steve Irwin sending me a video saying, “Hey, Saff, hope you’re doing well today, man.” That would have been amazing.

PLAYBOY: Do you keep in touch with anyone from the zoo?

SAFFERY: I chose to disconnect. Again, it was just part of wanting to leave this behind, so when I disconnected from the park, I disconnected from the animals and the people involved. I have not spoken to any of them since I left in 2018. But I’d definitely love to hear from John Reinke again, and a couple of other people. We’ll see how that goes.

PLAYBOY: Everyone is talking about who would get cast in an eventual movie version. I know you told David Spade that he’d be a good fit for Joe. Have other names come to mind?

SAFFERY: I genuinely have looked at Joe multiple times and said, “You are the living version of Joe Dirt.” I don’t see anybody else. There is a big height difference, though. Joe’s tall, and David’s not.

PLAYBOY: Any thoughts about who could really capture your essence?

SAFFERY: I’m not sure. It’s tough, because I’ve never looked at anyone and thought I looked similar to any of them. So if you’re just going based off looks—as long as they have brown skin, right? I had someone tell me that the guy from Twilight should play me.

PLAYBOY: Taylor Lautner?

SAFFERY: Taylor Lautner, that’s his name. I said, “He’s got too many hands, man.”