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Androgenic is not the most famous looksmaxxer in the world. That title belongs to his sometimes collaborator Clavicular, who this month was charged in Massachusetts with criminal rape, drugging someone for sexual intercourse, and procuring liquor for someone under 21 years old . The two came of age as prominent figures on what are known as PSL Forums, an acronym for PUAHate (Pick-Up Artist Hate), SlutHate, and Lookism, digital spaces with heavy ties to the incel community.
The world of looksmaxxing first bloomed on these forums. The community, as Androgenic describes it, was born out of a refusal among a subset of forum users to be “doomers” about their sexual prospects. In other words, men willing to do anything to get laid: steroids, rhinoplasty, hair transplants, wigs, makeup, even bone smashing—literally hitting themselves in the face with a hammer, in an errant and evidence-less attempt to improve the bone structure of the face. “It doesn’t mean every looksmaxxer is an incel, or every incel is a looksmaxxer, but I think there’s some kind of link,” Androgenic told Playboy when we caught up with him via zoom earlier this month.
The 25 year old Brisbane native crossed into the mainstream limelight in February, when a clip of him having his hair piece ripped off his head by a passerby went viral, something that he describes as “the best thing that’s ever happened to me.” At the time, his content sat firmly within the nebulous stylings of the manosphere, clip farming outside popular nightlife venues in Australia and elsewhere, where he alternated between arguing with women about their looks and attempting to pick them up in front of their boyfriends. These videos, Androgenic has admitted since, were often staged and designed explicitly to generate outrage.
Though he may not be the most famous looksmaxxer on the internet, the tone of Androgenic’s content in recent months has set him apart from the most fanatical wings of the manosphere. In numerous TikTok and Instagram posts, the Australian can be seen criticizing the mistreatment of trans people and women online and describing masculinity as “cope.” In one widely-circulated Instagram post, he apologizes for accidentally misgendering a trans woman while streaming. In others he can be seen refusing to “rate” people on a 1 to 10 scale, a practice common in the looksmaxxing space and born out of the most virulent and extreme corners of the PSL Forums.
But he hasn’t put looksmaxxing behind him. He’s documented a long line of cosmetic procedures online, including a rhinoplasty, buccal fat removal, and a hair transplant, and continues to use a cocktail of pharmaceuticals, including steroids, as part of his extreme beauty regimen. Now, Androgenic denies both being “woke” and a “grifter,” saying that he is instead focusing on bringing positivity and personal growth to a space he describes to Playboy as a “toxic cesspool.”
In his conversation with Playboy, Androgenic discussed how he found looksmaxxing, why the once niche but still extreme trend is breaking into the mainstream, the psychedelic origins of his newfound political pivot, and whether that pivot is genuine at all, or simply a strategy designed to turn heads and draw views.
Editor’s Note: This interview took place in the days before news broke that Clavicular had been charged with criminal rape, which he denies. When we followed up to ask him for comment, Androgenic’s take wasn’t quite as progressive as his earlier defenses of women. He dismissed the allegations as an attempt for “revenge.”
At what age did it become clear that—to use your words—you were not good-looking?
I remember being distinctly, like, 10, in grade five, and I remember consciously thinking the way that I look, how skinny I am, is gonna definitely impact my results with women, and that’s why I don’t wanna show interest to them. I think from age seven to eight I definitely knew a decent amount, and then by age 12, 13 it was very clear to me.
What was the insecurity point for you?
My main insecurity was how skinny I was, ’cause I was extremely skinny. At the end of high school I was below [130 pounds] at 6’3″, so I was, like, emaciated—extremely skinny. And beyond that, I had a very ginger, pale phenotype. I had no eyebrows. I looked very ghoulish.
Ghoulish?
Yeah, I would say so.
Was there an inciting incident for you where you were like, “This is something that I have to change”?
About six months after I’d finished high school, I was just playing Overwatch in my room all day, like 12 hours a day. And one time, one of my friends, at like 10:00 PM, asked me, “Hey, do you wanna come out to this nightclub? I’ll Uber you in, I’ll pay for your drinks.” And I was like, “Ah, fuck it, I might as well.” So I end up going out in the Uber that he sends me, and I’m just like a complete fish out of water once I get out, you know? Instantly thrown into it. I’m not prepared, I’m not in a good outfit.
And there’s just this ocean of people everywhere. And then I go into the line, and… the only way I can pay entry is literally giving coins, and everyone’s looking at me like a moron. Shortly after, I lose my friend—his phone has trouble. It [felt] kind of like when you lose your mom at the supermarket as a little kid. And I just got absolutely no attention all night. I felt like an outcast. I think there was even one guy passing that said I looked like a school shooter or something.
At some point I just threw in the towel and I just fucking walked away from the nightclub, on this huge trek to this bus stop, and I just sat there shivering in the cold, ’cause it was middle of winter. And I remember I just bussed home, and then I just thought, “Something’s gotta change.”
Have you thought about — maybe these people in this club weren’t thinking about you really that much?
In hindsight you’re probably correct, but that was also the issue to me — that I wanted attention. I wanted people to care… I wanted my existence in that club to make a difference to other people, you know? I didn’t wanna be invisible in such a social setting.
Had you already been on the looksmaxxing forums at this point, or was this the first time you really started to dive into it?
I’d stumbled upon the incel subreddit over a year prior, just browsing it, like, “Wow, this is a bit depressing.” They’re basically a toxic cesspool. There’s definitely a brutal kind of resentment, hatred whirlpool in those forums, ’cause ultimately a lot of those guys are just deeply unhappy with themselves and their life quality, and they just feel this strong need to project it to everyone else, you know? I feel like it’s kind of human nature to wanna drag other people down when you’re not feeling good about yourself.
What were you hoping to gain from it? You’re saying it’s a toxic cesspool, it’s miserable people everywhere—and yet you’re a pretty voracious poster on these websites.
I felt like there was some insight to be had, especially if you were talking to some of the other actually intelligent and innovative users on there. But I feel like a lot of the time it’s kind of an addiction pattern, where you justify all of this ridiculous usage that has no utility — just being mean to other people, posting off-topic or about irrelevant stuff, and being addicted to getting likes from other people on this forum. And you justify it with the idea of, “Well, I’m improving my looks by being on here.” And I definitely would’ve been an example of that. I did more than 99.9% of people on there in terms of innovating new looksmaxxing strategies and actually implementing them, and yet I was still caught in the resentment whirlpool on there.
Would you have described yourself as an incel?
If you literally just wanna use the original etymology of it, which is an involuntary celibate, then yeah, I would’ve been considered an incel.
If you’re saying this is the most literal version, what’s the loaded version?
People tend to use a different etymology, where incel is kind of just used as a definition of a man who’s misogynistic and resentful against women, and probably unattractive as well. But sometimes it’s used against men who do have sex with women. Even that one could have potentially been accurate. I mean, I definitely was misogynistic, and I was resentful against most people, but especially women, definitely.
Looksmaxxing seems to me—albeit, warped and extreme and potentially dangerous—but nonetheless an attempt to improve yourself in some way. Do you feel that way?
My read on looksmaxxing being belittled and viewed poorly by society is, I think society purposely attempts to reinforce behaviors that affect the collective positively. But if you have a society where everyone is just focusing all their time on individualistically looking better, that’s gonna [be a] detriment [to] the collective society. So I think it’s really just a cultural thing, based on the fact that people are mad, essentially, that if I looksmaxx, their lives aren’t benefited—in fact, they’re somewhat indirectly [harmed], because I’ll be stealing more of the women.
Couldn’t people also just be worried about… a growing cadre of young men who are taking great risks with their bodies and experimenting on themselves in the name of looking better?
Yeah, 100%. It’s not like that’s the only reason, right? It’s just one of many. But it really does come down to a true moral dilemma as to what is ideal to do, because society does attempt to placate people—say, “Looks don’t matter, it’s about your character.” But we have enough data to suggest that this is clearly not true. It’s like, how true do you wanna be as a society? Because if you really tell people the extent of the truth, sometimes it’s gonna severely impact their mental health.
At the end of the day, you have to figure out the fine line between placating them with straight-up lies versus trying to undermine a toxic culture. I view my looks more as a currency, a resource—kind of like a bank account, right? They give you better access to better careers, which is proven in studies. Better access to women in relationships. And then overall respect from people, your peers in general. And I feel like these are the reasons you should looksmaxx—not for some identity of feeling like you’re enough to yourself.
You’ve said [in the past] “I am not a political person, I do not wish to engage in politics.”
If I were to give one attribute from either side, I would say I’m extremely individualistic, which is right-wing, but I’m also extremely anti-resentment, anti-judgment against people who aren’t harming you, which is probably more left-wing.
You’ve pretty vocally, in at least the past handful of months, spoken out in support of trans people, LGBTQ people—you’ve spoken out against misogyny in your own community. That is inherently political in some way.
Sort of. I mean, the thing is, I don’t necessarily have outrage if someone hates on a trans person, you know? ‘Cause it’s not really worth my time to get mad over it, ’cause whatever happens, happens ultimately. And it’s not like I’m sitting here genuinely furious at people being resentful or hateful towards certain groups—even though sometimes I may hyperbolize in videos to make it seem like that. At the end of the day, I just think it’s a genuinely logical point that if you are actually getting worked up over someone minding their own business, then you have very little control over your own mind.
There seems to be a bit of a disconnect there. You’re describing yourself being on the PSL forums, saying really hateful, really angry shit, and now you’re making content talking about defending trans people, defending women, apologizing for misgendering [trans] women. Are those real? Are those staged? It’s a pretty substantive shift.
The reason for [the shift] is psychedelics, mainly, combined with getting a big platform and having a drastic change. Because at the end of the day, my daily experience, the way I’m treated, my online platform — that’s already a bigger change than 99.9% of people will ever experience, right? And I’ve just realized that a lot of this hate, a lot of this bias, it’s all completely irrational. And I also, since I live a good life now, I just don’t have anything to really be unhappy about.
What psychedelics do you mostly use?
LSD, mushrooms, DMT. I would say LSD has been the primary one.
Was there a particular moment, like a psychedelic experience that kinda made you be like, “Oh, shit, I need to stop doing this”?
Um, I wouldn’t say there was any particular psychedelic experience that made a huge shift. It was just psychedelic experiences over time very slowly shifting my mindset. After months go by, I kind of looked back and I’m like, I have changed as a person a little bit. I mean, one of my first ever experiences, I definitely got the insight of like judgment without enforcement at the end of the day is futile.
You said in a video that I saw that you deleted all of your old [looksmaxxing forum] posts. Why?
Some of it is just so hateful and resentful and toxic, and not stuff that I’d wanna be known for. Because things will already come out from the past where I’m being toxic or saying something bad—I have nothing to hide in terms of what I’ve done and said. I’ve been an extremely resentful person towards all groups of people.
People have compared looksmaxxing to drag. What’s your reaction to that?
Yeah, I think there’s some merit—I have low enough of an ego to understand. They’re both on the spectrum of appearance transformation, and at the end of the day, yeah, they do have a lot of similarities. I would do some things that some people consider borderline drag—like, I wear makeup, and I wore a wig for six months. There definitely are parallels, and to ignore that, I feel like you’d kind of just be coping.
When I was 10, I liked playing Warcraft, and I liked Warhammer and science fiction books. I wasn’t really thinking about my looks. Do you lose any sleep over the fact that there may be a 10-year-old out there who is worried about this, potentially because of your content or another looksmaxxer’s content?
Yeah. I’ve actually had situations where I’ll be streaming and then there’ll be a little kid come up, “Oh, Androgenic, I’m a big fan.” I’ll be like, “Man, stay blue-pilled for another half a decade, play some video games, play some sports.” So yeah, it does feel a bit bittersweet if there’s some super young kid getting into looks. But I also think there’s really no easy conclusion, because, like I said, looks matter, we can’t ignore that, and we attempt to placate people, sometimes to their benefit, sometimes perhaps to their detriment, in terms of whether you tell people to improve their looks or not, how important you tell people looks are. The best conclusion I’ve found is: I think people should improve their looks, they shouldn’t feel shameful about improving their looks, because it’s just a logical thing to do. But at the same time, they shouldn’t identify with their looks — they shouldn’t think they’re less of a person if they look worse. It’s just one material attribute that leads to some material successes.
Why do you think this has broken containment now—looksmaxxing?
I think it was bound to happen…because short-form content is so rapidly digestible—you just scroll, scroll, scroll, and it’s very face-dominant. We already had bodybuilding and fitness modeling become a big thing from early social media, and short-form content really switched the focus to face. The importance of the face became undeniable very quickly to people, and then it spiraled, with more looksmaxxing content becoming mainstream.
I have this theory that GLP-1s opened up people to a whole new level of intervention into their bodies that they would not have been comfortable administering to themselves just five years ago.
I think, yeah, you could consider them like a gateway drug to other aspects of looksmaxxing—definitely, that’s definitely accurate. I think GLP-1s were important for undermining body positivity, because, at the end of the day, obesity has been an epidemic. It is unhealthy, it is unattractive. So people coped around that, because once again they have a close identity attachment to looks. So they thought, “Okay, if I’m obese, and ultimately I don’t really want to make the sacrifices to not be obese anymore, then my only real way of coping is talking about body positivity, and how being overweight shouldn’t be seen as unattractive or unhealthy.” And when these drugs come out … everyone scrambles over from body positivity over to the GLP-1s, because they’re like, “Ah, I admit it, I was coping, I want to be skinny.”
What do you want from your own future now? What’s next for you?
I don’t really have too much on the agenda of looks, except for just maintaining them and maybe making small improvements over time. I think some of my biggest passions that I spend time on, day-to-day, are just researching pharmacology and philosophy and psychology. So, just become more well-versed in my passions, spread my influence wider, get a bigger platform.
Who’s your favorite philosopher?
I honestly don’t have anyone that stands out. I feel like I’m my own philosopher, honestly.
Okay.
I kinda wanna be a philosopher.
What would you call it? Androgenicism?
Maybe Holistic Optimization.
Holistic optimization.
Maybe something that even hits harder, that I’ll think of.